by Shane Poulter
Posted on FactNet Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 12:51 am:It is now time to move from the back seat to the front seat. My name is Shane Poulter and I have been one of the passive onlookers (which, I only hope there are many more) reading, digesting and enjoying this encouraging and uplifting discussion board.
One thing that is most disturbing to me about the "group" is the fact that they wholeheartedly believe and support the "inner circle" theory. Most of the "escapees" might be aware of what is meant by the "inner circle", but for those of you who do not, let me explain. Picture a circle within a larger circle. There are the Believers on the inside of the circle and then there are the nonbelievers on the outside of the circle. Pretty easy to follow so far, right? But then, Robert Grove and his brainwashed followers take it a step further, and this is where it gets quite scary. Remember the smaller circle within the larger circle. This is Robert's group. Sure, everyone in the larger circle is going to Heaven, but it is only the "group" within the smaller circle that is truly enlightened; the rest of us are either ignorant or worse-acting out of the will of God.Posted on Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 1:22 am:
the "inner circle" cont'd
To me, this is so dangerous because it plants the seeds of divisiveness and pridefulness. Think of the world population, and out of three billion people, you are part of only a couple thousand that are included in this "inner circle." Even if I received an A in my statistics class in college, I still think it is still too small of a percentage to calculate (Jenny can you help me?). This group must be very special!
Posted on Wednesday, August 25, 2004 - 8:30 pm:I will always have the fondest memories of Aunt Pat. She was kind, she was very protective over those she loved, and most of all, she treated me like one of her own (she must of loved me a lot because she was always overly protective). In fact, after her passing, the group never had quite the same impact on me as it once did before.
That is not to say, however, that I lack the desire to rekindle friendships with all my other relatives that are still in the group.
Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 12:28 pm:
After reading several of these postings and listening to my father’s accounts, especially of those men in the San Luis Obispo area, it is clear that the “group” definitely has some group/conformity issues. Researchers have been conducting studies for years about the possible negative affects of being a member of a particular group. One such negative occurrence is known as “groupthink”:
“Groupthink is more likely to occur in tightly knit, cohesive groups. The members of cohesive groups prefer to agree with one another and discourage dissent; the tendency of group members to conform, resulting in a narrow view of some issue. Where ‘fitting in’ provides a secure feeling of belonging. For that reason, contradictory evidence and opinions often are not presented, leaving the group with a false sense of the correctness of their decision.”
It is sad to say, but there have been many experiments done with “normal” people that show just how far they will go to conform to the group or even to powerful leadership--even if it is to cause pain to another individual! If you want specific information on “obedience, doing what we are told to do by people in authority,” e-mail me at: spoulter@mtsac.edu.
In my opinion, I do believe many who associate themselves with Robert Grove are saved, and one day, we will all reunite in “The Church Which is Christ’s Body.” However, I do believe that so many of them are oppressed by this “groupthink” mentality, and unfortunately, it has taken the place of the Holy Spirit. When Gordy Grant has to take instructions from Jack Langford and still wrestle with his decision (staying up until 4:00a.m. in the morning to decide on whether or not he should use the power of the pulpit to rebuke our family in public) is a clear illustration of not listening to the Holy Spirit.
Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 1:35 pm:
With “group censorship” so prevalent amongst the various assemblies, what is the most effective approach we can use to penetrate those who were “indifferent” or just unaware at the time of the markings?
This discussion board has generated a lot of interest and personal stories, but now I think it is time to harness this energy and come up with a specific plan. If our goal is to widen their “inner-circle” to include all Believers, how might we best reach (if only a few!) these misguided Saints?
It might be a good idea to start with a simple brainstorm of ideas. For example, should we target specific individuals (leaders or non-leaders), concentrate on the younger generation vs. the older generation, should we write letters or just show up in person (I, personally, would hesitate doing the latter).
Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 1:38 pm:It has been nearly twenty years and I still find myself fitting the pieces together to this strange and bizarre puzzle. How can a group of “good hearted” people with arguably good intentions become so deceived? Obviously, there are several reasons, but let me offer one such plausible explanation. In the book of Mark we are given this specific command:
Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Notice how this verse doesn’t simply command us to love God with all our heart and soul, but goes on to say, “and with all your mind.” I believe this is where the group fails in developing intellectual Godly thinkers. For the first sixteen years of my life, I was raised in a small circle of friends and relatives going from one social gathering to the next. Was it fellowship? We sang a lot of hymns and gave personal testimonies concerning our faith in Jesus. Some of the members would even pass out Bible tracks. At times, we would visit convalescent homes and sing praises to the elderly. Through out the year we attended huge camps and we sat through endless meetings. Were we fellowshipping?
There is nothing wrong with praising God with all your heart, in fact God commands us to do so. However, if that is all we do as Christians, we are failing to mature as Believers. And it is with this immaturity in Christ, that I believe it is so easy for members to get stuck in this form of groupthink. Just let the leaders make our decisions for us:
“Groupthink is more likely to occur in tightly knit, cohesive groups. The members of cohesive groups prefer to agree with one another and discourage dissent; the tendency of group members to conform, resulting in a narrow view of some issue. Where ‘fitting in’ provides a secure feeling of belonging. For that reason, contradictory evidence and opinions often are not presented, leaving the group with a false sense of the correctness of their decision.”
Posted on FactNet Monday, October 11, 2004 - 12:59 pm:This message is primarily for the purpose of reaching those who are still in the “group.” For many of the frequent “factnet browsers” this information was already posted; you might want to skip it. I actually mailed out this letter to Jim Maurer and to all his children. I still have not received any kind of response.
Jim Maurer:
It has been nearly twenty years and I still find myself fitting the pieces together to this strange and bizarre puzzle. How can a group of “good hearted” people with arguably good intentions become so deceived? Obviously, there are several reasons, but let me offer one such plausible explanation. In the book of Mark we are given this specific command:
Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Notice how this verse doesn’t simply command us to love God with all our heart and soul, but goes on to say, “and with all your mind.” I believe this is where the group fails in developing intellectual Godly thinkers. For the first sixteen years of my life, I was raised in a small circle of friends and relatives going from one social gathering to the next. Was it fellowship? We sang a lot of hymns and gave personal testimonies concerning our faith in Jesus. Some of the members would even pass out Bible tracts. At times, we would visit convalescent homes and sing praises to the elderly. Through out the year we attended huge camps and we sat through endless meetings. Were we fellowshipping?
There is nothing wrong with praising God with all your heart, in fact God commands us to do so. However, if that is all we do as Christians, we are failing to mature as Believers. And it is with this immaturity in Christ, that I believe it is so easy for members to get stuck in this form of groupthink. Just let the leaders make our decisions for us:
“Groupthink is more likely to occur in tightly knit, cohesive groups. The members of cohesive groups prefer to agree with one another and discourage dissent; the tendency of group members to conform, resulting in a narrow view of some issue. Where ‘fitting in’ provides a secure feeling of belonging. For that reason, contradictory evidence and opinions often are not presented, leaving the group with a false sense of the correctness of their decision.”
Is it true that Jack Langford went to Israel to sell all his personal belongings only to find out his timing was a little off? If this is true, I think there are some serious concerns that need to be raised concerning other serious “lapses of judgment.” Perhaps the one he made in 1985, when he “marked” his own brother in front of 500 people (without due process!). His course of action also created the “domino effect” which is completely incomprehensible and unbiblical.
Why did so many of the “groupies” stand behind Jim’s marking? Since the majority of the people at that particular camp (Santa Maria) did not participate or involve themselves in the San Luis Obispo men’s meetings, what was their reasoning for standing behind Jack Langford? And, if the group had such confidence in Jack Langford then, what would they say now? The absurd fact simply remains: we were marked by a false prophet.
I would love to embark on a study of Romans 16:17 and share with you what that scripture really means and NOT how the group abuses it! You and everyone else in the group put way too much emphasize on “man” and fail to listen to the Holy Spirit. Remember, there is only one Mediator between God and man and that is Jesus Christ—not Robert Grove, Jack Langford, or even yourself!
Jim, you have known our family for the first sixteen years of your life. Do you really think we were preaching gospel that was contrary to God’s Word (laying out the Plan of Salvation)? Or was it just different issues like makeup, wearing pants, little league, television etc. that was so divisive. If it was the latter, then your group’s philosophy on marking is completely misguided.
You owe it to yourself to seek out the Truth. God commands us to do so. I am openly willing to debate these issues with you. Are you?
I will leave you with one last final excerpt from Dana Gilbert:
“When we were still respected and in the group, we had Robert and Judy (his wife at the time) to have dinner and spend time with us in our home. Art and Pat Werner were also included in our time together.
We were all visiting in our living room, following dinner. I told Robert that I had recently been studying some of our “walks” in scripture and had reached different conclusions than what were commonly practiced and preached in the group.
Women Wearing Pants
I started to develop the subject of women wearing pants. I began with Deuteronomy 22:5 and included other verses to explain the results I reached from my study. Robert stopped me and said that he agreed with my study. He agreed with my understanding of the verse in Deuteronomy (that it was referring to cross dressers, people exercising homosexual tendencies or someone living a deviant lifestyle).
He also went on to say he felt women have been wearing pants for so long in this country (since early 1940’s) that a Godly woman could do so without compromise. He also agreed that the way our women dressed, they actually bring unnecessary attention to themselves (which is the opposite result of Godliness). He even agreed our women’s dress would easily be confused with other, more popular (cultic) organizations.
Robert’s final statement on this subject was that he was not going to change his position on this publicly. Robert said, “I will not allow the position to change in my lifetime.“ It was interesting that even though he agreed with me, he would neither admit it to anyone else nor let it be preached publicly. (Teaching hypocrisy at the top!)
Robert asked me what other subjects I had studied. I named:
Women’s Long Hair
The Wearing of Jewelry
Joining an Organization (some objected to joining a shopping club for a discount). Robert said there was no room for the “Holy Spirit” in making such decisions. He said that would potentially lead to “disunity”. He said to take it up with the local men and they would make the ruling for all of us to follow.
Drinking Wine (Robert said he’d been reviewing the drinking of wine in the scriptures and knows there are as many negative as positive verses with regard to partaking it).
Robert said that we were members of an organization with a hierarchy. He said all the decisions that need to be made will be made by the leadership. (Again, no room for the “Holy Spirit” to guide, correct & instruct.)
I said, “ So Robert, you are to the group kind of like the pope is to the Catholic Church.” To that, Robert said, “yes, I guess you could say that.”
From prior conversations, and this time in our home, I’m confident Robert counted us as ones he considered as not staying in the group.
Robert already had a track record of causing division (in Christian homes & with their families). We were confident that as others became aware of the mindset of Robert A. Grove, they would have no choice but to leave this group (knowing we live with our conscience, hopefully the Holy Spirit and are accountable to God for our actions-which includes not doing anything).
We pray that those trapped in that group will want to seek and follow God’s truths more than stay in with family and support the tyranny brought on by leadership. The leadership is involved with breaking numerous laws, while claiming to “obey Caesar”. They give lip service and justify not doing the will of the Lord (they do evil that good may come).
“These people draw near to Me with their mouth, and honor Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.” Matt. 15: 8 & 9.
We pray that God will deliver those in the group from the man-made encumbrances they are caught-up in.”
If you have any further questions, please email at: spoulter@mtsac.edu.
PS Per my last conversation with Jeff Werner, can you please elaborate on the “innercircle” theory.
Sincerely,
Shane Poulter